mGTD 1.2 pre-final

I love Mori - it's one of just a few applications that is always open on my computer, and I'm constantly referring to it and adding notes. Mori has helped me get organized and saved me so many headaches. Thank you Jesse!

Web discussions and blogs about organization led me to GTD and Mori. I've only read a bit of the book, but have implemented many of Allen's ideas with great success. My personal organization system is based in my computer, primarily Mori and the organization app Life Balance, http://www.llamagraphics.com/LB/LifeBalanceTop.html.

Life Balance is great and has worked well for me, but I would rather my full system in one application that I can more closely tailor to the GTD system. So how exciting to find out about your development work on mGTD, Jeff. Thank you!

I've downloaded the plugin and sample notebook and have to admit that I don't know where to start. The main cause of my confusion is probably that I'm not familiar with all the GTD terms. I want to contribute to your efforts by testing and providing feedback, but I think I first need to finish the book. (Or perhaps there are instructions somewhere for mGTD? If not, no worries - I bet I'll be able to figure it out after finishing GTD.)

So - thanks much to both of you and please know that there are plenty more "invisible" people like me who very much appreciate your work.

1. Single, definitely. I much prefer Allen's philosophy of having as few buckets as possible. If I want sections I can fork things up in the Projects area, or even make multiple Project folders.

5. I prefer a bit of automation here. My current GTD system is extremely automated. It selects next actions for me based on two criteria: "Is it the next uncompleted action in a project?" And, "is it due in the next few days?" This is in conjunction with the ability to manually select next actions, of course. But I prefer these two types to always automatically add themselves. There are two exceptions: Projects that I am not actively working on for whatever reason, and projects which contain non-linear tasks. Consequently, I have three types of projects. Normal, Linear, and Defunct. Only linear auto-selects next actions. It would be nice if mGTD could do something like this. Perhaps a set of abbreviations for folders, or just re-use the existing ones. A folder tagged as "act" will act as they do now, a folder tagged "na" will automatically promote the next uncompleted action, and folders without a tag will essentially act like "act". The distinction is probably not important in this system (mine has a number of other things going on other than auto-selection which require a distinction between normal and defunct projects).

6. I'd prefer it if they went to the trash.

--
Av.

Are they recurring items? Right now there is a little bit of a behavioral conflict between the onComplete actions 'move' and 'delete' and recuring items. Basically, the recur trumps the onComplete action, so that a recur with delete won't be deleted and a recur with move will be aliased to the archive instead of moved. I'm still thinking about how best to handle this, and feedback is welcome.

If they're not recurs, then it could be the case that you just have to wait until the next updateAll. I didn't have the complete actions get processed immediately for two reasons: 1) because if you accidentally checked it off, and it immediately disappeared it would be a pain to get everything back to where it was (especially if it was set to delete) and 2) I wanted to leave completed items on your radar for a short time (approx 6 hrs) so that you would have a sense of what was completed today. (for this beta version I've changed that to 1 minute so that people could see the mGTD action more readily. I'm thinking to have a pref for this in the final.)

Also remember that editing the notebook is what gets mGTD to update the entries. So if you just sit and watch, waiting for the entry to disappear to the archive, it won't happen. However, if you make any type of change to the notebook, all the entries should update and completed ones taken care of. I'm not completely satisfied with that way of working yet, but I'm going to leave it until I come up with a better one.

Thanks for trying it out,
Jeff

No, they weren't recurring.

I just tried again with a couple more things that I'd completed, and I assume the updateAll action ran, because they disappeared from the "completed Today" smart folder. However, they appear to have disappeared completely. There's nothing that's been added to the archive folder, they're not where they were, they're not in the trash, and they don't show up if I search for them on keywords I know were in their titles. I just checked and my default onComplete action is "move", not "delete."

This doesn't seem to happen with recurring items--I just test one out and it seemed to function correctly, although it didn't appear to create an alias in the Archive folder, either.

Is this relying on specific names and files that perhaps I don't have in my mGTD notebook? There's a top-level folder called "mGTD" that contains the "Archive" folder, and three other files ("Reminders", "Calendar" and "Record"). The "Archive" folder contains another folder ("2005") but nothing else.

I just tried it with the plugin and example notebook. I set my pref to "move" and checked off a couple of non-recurring items. I waited a minute and did another edit, and instantly had folders "2006" "Jul" and "10" under the Archive folder, and the entries were moved there.

So you are using the mGTD folder that was included with the example notebook on this page? If you click on the mGTD folder and look at the values in the GTD column for the entries "Archive" "Reminders" "Calendar" and "Record" do they all say 'admin'? This tag is how mGTD finds them.

If you send me the run log (from the Console App) I'll look through it to see what's going wrong. you can copy and paste the log into a text file or save a copy as, and send it to me at grefeedback at gmail period com.

If you want to get the entries back you should be able to put the focus back on the sources view and undo back past the update all.

I'll test it some more and see if I can reproduce the error. I'm sorry if you lost anything--Everyone please don't test this with irreplaceable data until the final release.

6. There is an onComplete action called ‘dlt’ which will delete an item when it is completed. Right now this is set up to be a true delete (i.e. the item does NOT end up in the trash,) would people prefer this to move items to the trash?

I changed this to move any normally deleted items to the trash instead. I was too worried about people losing data; it can be changed back later if people don't want their trash filled up with completed entries.

So is the prefinal now final? Or are we still in-process, so to speak? I'm anxious to try it out, but not anxious enough to try it out if there's a chance something crucial will go poooooof.

Please try it out with the example notebook. I don't think there's any bugs left that could cause a crash; it's mostly things like completed items won't regenerate when they should, or do when they shouldn't. But I can only try so many different testing scenarios, so it's helpful when people test out things on the example notebook and let me know where it's not working. Otherwise, prefinal might never become final.

As long as your other notebooks don't have a folder at the root (top) level named "mGTD", the plugin won't affect them at all. So you don't have to worry about it messing up your other notebooks.

Thanks,
Jeff

There's two things going on every minute. One is that mGTD checks and updates the state of all the entries that have a due date or have been completed. And two, it logs the info for this update. So I can definitely post a "no-logging" version (well I'd like to have pref to turn logging on and off, but I won't be able to get to that this week, so I can just turn it all off,) but at the same time you might get a lag as mGTD updates all the entries.

The original "update all" was set to 6 hrs (since if something was not urgent a minute ago, it probably isn't urgent now either) but then people weren't able to test it very well because they would check off something and it wouldn't be archived or recurred for 6 hours, then when it did happen they probably didn't notice if it happened correctly or not. I changed that to 1 minute for the beta version so that everyone could see what was happening as they tried various things on the example notebook.

So what I want to say is that there are the two things 1) full updates unnecessarily often and 2) excessive logging. I can post a version with no logging, but you still might get the lag. So no logging and a six hour update might be the better option. Let me know which would be better.

Thanks !

In fact, I've arrived today to the extreme where I only have 10seconds to work between each update (each taking ~50sec)... Had to disable the plugin !

You'll see in activity monitor that the most hungry process during updates is "Applespell", reason why I suspected logging in the first place.

Massyah,

I've posted a version that should have an NSLog calls and now updates only once an hour (which is really 4-8x more often than it probably needs to.)

I consider this to be more of a work version, than for people just testing it out with the example notebook.

Let me know how things go for you.

I've been working on it here and there, adding a few features as I get to them. (I've made a slight shift to actually getting things done rather than just messing around with my "getting things done" system.)

I use it everyday with pretty good results. But to be honest, I've started to re-evaluate how much time I spend adding features and interface methods that I think people might want when I have very little concrete evidence for or against any given assumption (i.e. only one bug report and 3-4 posts in this thread during the month.)

Perhaps, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem: people are waiting for a "final" version before trying it out seriously, but I can't commit a final version without sufficient user testing/feedback.

I've downloaded a program to do a first-draft screencast of the features and usage but couldn't get time for it this last month. Maybe this weekend I can put something together.

I've got a lot of ideas for things that could be incorporated into mGTD, but it'll depend a little on the interest that's out there.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff--

Thanks for putting in the time on this wonderful plugin. I started poking around in it a few days ago, and it's already working for me better than any of my recent organizing systems.

If you're still interested in hearing, I'll post any problems and wishes I come across. So far there are no problems, and I'm not yet at home enough with mGTD to imagine how I might want to improve it. Since there is naturally no documentation yet, there is a bit of figuring-out curve. (For instance--though I'm a little embarrassed to admit this--it took me a while to realize that the use of the UNIX "remind" tool did not mean that it would pop up reminders the way iCal does!) Anyone could understand if the low level of response has made this seem less urgent or less pleasant for you. But, selfishly, I hope you'll continue developing it.

All best,
Steve

Let me second Steve on thanking you, Jeff, for your time and work on mGTD. I think the screencast is a great idea, and a visual introduction would get people on the road to working with mGTD. I, too, in the name of actually getting things done, have been working with the old index card system for things that are most pressing, but I think I'd like to work with mGTD for some recurring tasks (house cleaning tasks, etc.).

Jeff,

Have you considered moving to a model along the lines of Kinkless when you need to make things happen by clicking a button of some sort? I'm not a fan of this method but I think the thing that most will confuse new users is not seeing things happen when expected. I know not seeing things happen when I first played with it is what had me confused. Also having those columns with values that I did not understand at first .(na, act, wf ..). Out of curiosity, in your mgtd example, why do you leave the GTD column editable by the user? I think a screencast would be enormously helpful.

Steve

Actually, the whole reason of setting it up with a Mori plugin architecture was to avoid the necessity of the kGTD 'sync'. I think that once the users get the hang of the workings and can trust what's going on in the background, they'll appreciate the lack of a manual sync.

The GTD column values are user-editable because that's really the way that users should mark whether a particular item is an action or whether it's on hold. There are some ways that it they can be automatically marked (like when you click an item's checkbox, it will be marked 'cmplt' or if a due dated item reaches its lead it will be marked 'na.)

I hope to make this more user friendly with pop-up menus (when the become available for mori columns.

Well first let me thank you for all the work you put into it.

Some impressions:
I've created my own notebook with all the required columns etc. (Final distribution should perhaps include an empty template-notebook to make it easier). I find the textual approach (type na, wf etc.) a bit of a hassle w
and would prefer sth easier like a selection/pop-up etc. if that works in mori.

my only problem so far is that a lot of times I try to put sth. into the different columns (like GTD and then @location) the first stays highlighted and whatever I do the entry ends up in the scond column as well.
It appeared to be abit easier in root-view or by leaving mori and coming back. I wonder if it is a drawing/memory issue?
Well there are always a lot of apps open on my G3 800MHz 640 Ram iBook maybe that's the reason; then I try the log-less version next…

I definitly will try to use it when it is relased.

I'd prefer to be able to be reminded accross different notebooks, so it is easier to manage things.

Is there a way to link items accross notebooks? Could be handy in the context of GTD as well…

Greetings,

Rolf

Hi Rolf,

Thanks for trying things out.

I also found typing in the GTD tag a little bit of a hassle. I hope to make it pup-up menus when that is possible through Mori (maybe soon.)
As an interim method I made some markNA, markWait, etc scripts to put in the toolbar. They have the advantage that they can mark a whole selection of entries at once. I'll include them with the next posting (as they'll probably be featured in the screencast.)

The problem you described with the one field remaining selected and the value being copied to a new field is a problem I've run into before. It has usually occurred when I've sent a command to an object that cannot respond to it. I thought I've tracked them all down, but if you're getting that kind of error there might be one or two left. You could send me your console output if it happens again. The best way I've found to fix it is to restart Mori when it happens.

Right now, there's no way to link between notebooks, but that would certainly be an interesting possiblity for the future (I've also desired similar functionality.) Right now keeping actions in several notebooks means keeping several separate lists.

Thanks,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

the scripts would be a very wellcome addition. Looking forward to it.
I'll post the console log when I try the next time…

Greetings,
Rolf

Rolf,

Don't post the console log here (in most cases, it'll be way too long). Instead, you can send it to me at grefeedback at gmail.

thanks

Hello!

That problem didn't pop up again. But then I 've stopped to use my _OWN_ notebook-file for GTD. There seems no problem with your example-notebook. Any ideas why? I'd REALLY like to try out the scripts.

I am currently using the latest Mori beta (with spotlight-bug)…

Greetings,
Rolf

I'm not really sure, but when you made your own notebook with the columns did you also mark the mGTD files (Record, Archive, Reminders) with an 'admin' tag in their GTD column? Of course, you can cut-and-paste the mGTD folder out of the example and into your own notebook, just to be safe (do it after making all the columns in your new notebook.)

I would recommend in general, simply taking the example notebook and erasing all the example entries (everything except the mGTD folder and trash) to use it for your own entries. It will be much easier than setting up your own notebook.

If you already have a notebook going, you should also be able to cut and paste entries out of it and into the mGTD example.

I hope this helps to get things working for you.

I spent some time last weekend and made a preference for turning logging on and off, so that people can install just the normal plugin, and turn on the logging whenever they're having problems. Also I added a 'skip' command for recurring items that you want to miss one occurence of.

Hello!

sorry I'm infrequently checkin on this thread… I think (I remember) to have drag/dropped the mGTD-entries accross to my new notebook. Well now I am using yours with my own stuff in it.

What is not totally clear to me: What is the latest version of your plugin? You mentioned some changes but the downloads on the top of the thread seem not to have changed. OK I will look into the preferences while trying them out but a clear indicator (version X. of ?) would be quite helpful.

When working with it I would like some more easy way of deferring/changing dates when something is approaching but as to sent to another time(line)/date. A pop-up with a calendar would be very very nice, since it is not so easy to remember what date would be next monday (= in a week).

So much for now, continuing to use it and still liking it!

Greetings,
Rolf

The only reason I haven't migrated is that I took your GTD script and modified a bunch of stuff in it so that it works just the way I want it to. I haven't spent much time with the plugin because I've already got a working system and I don't really want to give up functionality that I added in exchange from some benefits which, to me, seem relatively minor. However, probably once the winter break rolls around I'll have enough time to play with it, since I'll have less critical stuff to do.

Do you remember which modifications you made? I can let you know if they are easy to do in the new plugin version or not.

Hi Gom,

Thanks for your comments and for trying things out.

to answer your questions:

1. I would say that mgtd differs from kgtd in two main ways. First, it's always monitoring things in the background so there is no user-initiated 'sync' required to get things where they need to be. Second, it is able to use many of Mori's built-in features to accomplish its tasks, so that means that the whole system is much more user-customizable. Since OO3 doesn't have built in smart folders or clones, kGTD has alot of work to do in the background to keep everthing matching. mGTD utilizes Mori's strengths so that there is much less coding I have to do, and (more importantly) its power will grow automatically with improvements to Mori. For example, the recent changes to smart folders will open a lot of new possibilities for users who want to customize their mGTD setup.
One obvious lack when compared to kGTD is iCal integration. Some people seem to be working on iCal scripts to sync Mori to their calendars but I haven't looked into anything like that yet. I'm hoping someone will come up with a perfect solution by the time that mGTD is finished.

2. About the source, I can't say for sure yet, but I've released everything else I've written for Mori so far, so the chances are pretty good that I'll do the same for mGTD. Especially, I'm hoping that people will add new features and functions that'll I'll be able to use too. At the very least, I've put in a ton of preferences (and have lists of many more) and I'll probably make Blocks extension points, so that users could make plugins that would extend from the mgtd plugin.

Thanks for the ideas about getting the word out. Actually, I don't want it to be too well know just yet (until the bugs are out.) I just wanted people who were trying it out to let me know how things were going. I was somewhat concerned that people were trying it and it was very buggy, but they avoided saying so becasue they didn't want to seem too "negative."

Oh, and a screencast is on the way. I began preparing it last night.

BMEGuy, I'm new to Mori and still finishing the GTD book but I like what I see so far and I'm excited to find others using Mori for their GTD implementation. As soon as I finish the book and start implementing my system I will check out mGTD. However, for now I think I would just be confused since I'm a novice to both Mori and the GTD terminology and methodology.

The point here is please keep at it. I think there are a lot of people looking for what something like this but they are certainly not all writing to the forum. And now with the ability to edit Mori entries using WriteRoom and the upcoming changes to Mori, well, I think we are starting to have a very differentiated product here that will continue to garner more interest and users.

Hello!

Dear BMEguy, please where is the LATEST installment of your plugin? I'm not so sure if my reply got lost in the thread: it is currently not clear what is the latest/current version. You mentioned changes in preferences on logging and adding a skip-option. I re-downloaded the plugin from the start of the thread but when installing the one with 1-h-logging was newer. No changes in preferences to be seen.

I am using the latest beta of mori (unfortunately the colours turned into small small dots…).

Greetings,
Rolf

Hi Rolf,

The changes I mentioned were only added to my local copy, where I am little fixing bugs as I find them and adding features as I can. I plan to release the next version soon after Mori 1.4 becomes final.
Of course, if someone finds a show-stopper bug before that, I'll do my best to squash it and post the fix.

Thanks for trying things out.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

since I keep a very vigorous backup-regime I'd be willing to try out your latest (personal) beta…

What I can not do is build stuff. I do have subversion installed (though THAT didn't work out for me locally) and could get things from your repository.

Anyway, off to work

Greetings,
Rolf

Jeff has been able to provide me with a fix.

Rolf Schmolling M.A.

http://rolf_schmolling.macbay.de/

This happened to me too - my completed items don't move to my archive.

Let me know what I can do/try to fix this.

Later!,
_Ryan Wilcox

Hi,

please ask bmeGuy (Jeff) for an updated version of mGTD. Alternatively you can contact me privately (see the address on my website).

Greetings,

Rolf

Rolf Schmolling M.A.

http://rolf_schmolling.macbay.de/

Hi,
just to add: Mori 1.6.11 and mGTD (latest version) are compatible, as long as MoriDraw is NOT present. Be aware that there might be interference with other plugins as well.

I have checked the NoteChan-plugin and Time-Date-plugin as well they behave nicely on my system.

Greetings,

Rolf Schmolling M.A.

http://rolf_schmolling.macbay.de/

Hi Christopher,

I haven't seen this problem yet. I'm guessing that's because it involves Aspell somehow. If you have done any of your testing with the "verbose logging" option (in mGTD's pref pane) turned on, could you send me the log as a text attachment to grefeedback at googlemail. I can't promise anything because I remember about 2 years ago people having problems with Aspell and Mori (this was before mGTD) -- it kept inserting doubled punctuation at the end of sentences. (Have you tried any testing without Aspell turned on?)
I'll take a look and see what I can do.

Thanks
Jeff

PS the reason for the modification dates on the plugin is that I updated it in Feb 08 when Rolf was having problems, but didn't end up zipping and posting it until later.